We pick up the discussion in the middle of a debate concerning students-as-customers, and the importance of an audience in blogging and podcasting:


[erin] and if they're not offering anything the customer is interested in, they lose the customer's business.

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[ewan.mcintosh] but shy students can participate throughs podcasting because their ID is retained secret if they so wish

[Chris] And blogging too, yes?

[ewan.mcintosh] ye

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[erin] yes, they can. but is that what will help them learn? it's not for us to decide.

[erin] and it's not really for THEM to "decide" either.

[Jo_McLeay] Hi Dave, things are great down under. Still on holidays

[ewan.mcintosh] the learning rarely takes place in the podcast - the repetition does

[dave] The kind of cajoling that you're talking about erin, hasn't worked very well in my experience

[ewan.mcintosh] learning (of facts?) has taken place beforehand

[dave] leadership isn't about serving customers

[erin] ewan: then what is the point of publishing the podcast?"

[dave] it's about having a 'way' that others would like to share

[erin] if no learning occurs from it?

[ewan.mcintosh] podcasting gives another opp to rehearse

[ewan.mcintosh] publishing the MP3 (making it a podcast) gives audience

[Chris] A real audience surely makes for a more committed performance

[dave] and suggests an audience to record TO

[ewan.mcintosh] Have you ever seen a naughty 16 year old boy leave a classroom quietly?!?!

[ewan.mcintosh] They LOVE an audience

[ewan.mcintosh] and play up to it

[erin] a real audience could also make for a scared presenter.

[Chris] scared is not always bad

[dave] why is fear such a bad thing?

[ewan.mcintosh] also, but there the possibility of anonymity comes in

[ewan.mcintosh] and why is fear a bad thing?

[dave] lol

[ewan.mcintosh] we all must overcome fears

[ewan.mcintosh] they have to speak in the exam after all...

[erin] fear can be a bad thing if it paralyzes the student. and for some people, it does.

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[ewan.mcintosh] then is the solution not to overcome that fear?

[Chris] :?

[ewan.mcintosh] rather than abandon the podcast?

[dave] hi theatreteach

[Chris] yesyesyes

[ewan.mcintosh] Hi Carol!

[Chris] hail and farewell - i'm off

[Chris] really

[Chris] goodnight

[ewan.mcintosh] goodnight mum

[ewan.mcintosh] kiss kiss

[dave] Jo. this is our newest show. we should get you a show too!!!

[Chris] ;)

[dave] something about kangaroos and rocks... or whatever happens down there

[dave] :)

[Jo_McLeay] :D

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[Jo_McLeay] we have a lot more than kangaroos and rocks

[dave] really?

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[dave] you should get a show and tell us about it!

[ewan.mcintosh] not sure if thing are easier

[barbara-on-air] (erin will be back... she just lost power to the laptop)

[Jo_McLeay] scary. Fear can be paralysing

[theatreteach] Hello everyone. Hi Ewan.

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[Jo_McLeay] This is a really lively and interesting topic

[ewan.mcintosh] Hi Carol

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[barbara-on-air] yippee you are back, erin

[Scott] That is why you have to command whatever topic you are woking with and be able to

[erin] sorry folks, i got so into the chat that i didn't realize my laptop's battery was about to die.

[Scott] give that presentation if every piece of tech fails.

[barbara-on-air] erin: it's dave's fault

[dave] yes

[erin] it's all dave's fault.

[dave] yes

[erin] i was going to say: the solution doesn't have to be abandoning the podcast. it can somply be not publishing the podcast.

[dave] that would make it an audio file

[ewan.mcintosh] but publishing it is EVERYTHING - it gives the audience

[dave] without the xml

[ewan.mcintosh] the final product

[erin] can the teacher not be the audience?

[dave] adn the audience encourages the students

[ewan.mcintosh] The XML gives the distribution network and theroefre the audience

[ewan.mcintosh] we already are

[ewan.mcintosh] is that working to raise motivation???

[erin] ewan: you yourself said that your students blogged well because they had established rapport with you.

[erin] so why can the same not be true of podcasting?

[ewan.mcintosh] No I didn't - I said tha students blogged well because teyhad an audience

[ewan.mcintosh] Roll cassette ;-)

[erin] is telling students basically to "suck it up" or "get over it" working to raise motivation?

[dave] if that's the only way you have to convince someone

[erin] this technology can be useful. but that doesn't mean it has to be useful in the same way to everybody,.

[dave] you should give up teaching

[dave] when i say 'my students need to suck it up'

[dave] that certainly doesn't mean that that is what i tell them

[erin] of course it isn't.

[erin] but you don't have to say it for the attitude to permeate into the teaching.

[barbara-on-air] provided I don;t totally mung this up, does anyone want to join the voice chat from the chatroom?

[barbara-on-air] (thank gawd for the post show edit)

[erin] i'm saving myself for edtechtalk.

[erin] :)

[dave] erin is a chicken

[Scott] Go for it, Erin!!!

[barbara-on-air] dave......

[dave] sorry.

[dave] erin is a nice person

[barbara-on-air] hold on I will bring you in

[dave] it's going to be a nice show tonight

[dave] no fighting

[ewan.mcintosh] miaouw!

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[barbara-on-air] hi ya art

[barbara-on-air] welcome to the fun, Art

[Art_Gelwicks] Hi barbara-on-air. ;)

[barbara-on-air] (and that would be my dogs in the background!0

[barbara-on-air] (the joys of broadcasting....from your kitchen)

[Art_Gelwicks] Natural inherent shyness in kids being the culprit?

[dave] something like that

[Art_Gelwicks] Can you wean them into it and do it isolated within the school before making it globally available?

[ewan.mcintosh] yes

[Jo_McLeay] I agree with you Ewan. You can't get over fear by giving in to it. Baby steps is the way to go

[Art_Gelwicks] Record each student as a segment and then edit them together. You can drop the students out who aren't comfortable.

barbara-on-air] the crashing is my 10 year old and the ice machine...sorry

[Art_Gelwicks] I'd like to learn to speak English.

[Art_Gelwicks] 10 year old and an ice machine...sounds like the potential for a snowball fight.

[Art_Gelwicks] Doesn't it match the idea of videotaping your students when presenting and playing it back for them?

[Art_Gelwicks] Somebody reset the blue robot's head please.

[barbara-on-air] last call: anyone want in to the live chat?

[Art_Gelwicks] Sure, I'll jump in if you want to take the risk.

[barbara-on-air] (aside from my dog who is barking)

[barbara-on-air] uh, risk?

[Art_Gelwicks] :)

[dave] not that art guy

[Art_Gelwicks] :P

[dave] you know what he's like

[barbara-on-air] Mercedes: do you want to join in?

[Art_Gelwicks] A bit of culture and class in a troubled world.

[Mercedes] Hi Barbara. I'd love to but have to leave in 5 minutes.

[barbara-on-air] I hope you know that I wasn't ignorning you. I will gte better at this but right now it is like riding a unicycle and juggling

[barbara-on-air] the conference call didn't work at the beginning which is upsetting

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[barbara-on-air] oh well

[dave] OMG

[Art_Gelwicks] The language travel guide sounds like an excellent idea!

[dave] hi jeff!

[jeff_from_ann_arbor] hi there

[barbara-on-air] Will you come back? :-)

[Art_Gelwicks] Ann Arbor is in da house!!!

[jeff_from_ann_arbor] Heeee's back

[dave] oh yes.

[Mercedes] Sorry I have to leave now. I enjoyed the talk and hope to continue some other time. Bye now.

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[Art_Gelwicks] And if your 35 and can't communicate there's probably a management position waiting for you somewhere.

[dave] bye mercedes

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[dave] ego

[dave] superego

[Art_Gelwicks] id

[buthaina] For me, podcasting opens doors and  towards creativity and learning for teachers and students. It will help us assess

[buthaina] help us assess oral skills of our studeents and know where to focus., esp. with shy students

[erin] i agree that the way of overcoming fear is not to give in to it. but the way of overcoming fear is not to force a student to

[erin] face what they're not ready to face

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[Art_Gelwicks] Podcasting is a simple, user friendly medium that is the paint and canvas for the verbal artists within individuals.

[dave] oh. we scared id away

[dave] shitty

[Jo_McLeay] It's incumbent on us as teachers for the future to encourage the use of these tools

[dave] i thought i was being funny

[buthaina] students who give short answers, in particualr will have the channce to talk more and gain self-confidence, esp. when they comme

[buthaina] comments to their podcasts

[erin] baby steps, yes. but who decides when to take th enext step? the baby. not the parents.

[ewan.mcintosh] http://edu.blogs.com/edublogs/2005/12/3rd_millennial_.html

[buthaina] and teachers who teach English using Arabic will stop doing that

[Art_Gelwicks] Teachers should lead by example with this. Record lessons, materials, discussions, all for the students. Let them hear your

[Art_Gelwicks] voice through the medium.

[ewan.mcintosh] All my students have my blog address

[ewan.mcintosh] some of them read it

[ewan.mcintosh] and can't believe anyone else reads it!

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[Jo_McLeay] Yes Art that sounds like a good beginning

[Art_Gelwicks] Web metrics are the most gratifying aspect of blogging.

[Art_Gelwicks] "A hundred edtechs typing for a hundred years will blog the works of Shakespear."

[erin] but will it be spelled correctly? that's what i want to know, myself being guilty of completely mangling the english language

[erin] during these chats.

[dave] here in canada

[dave] we teach in target language

[dave] almost universally

[ewan.mcintosh] I loved my time in New Brunswick

[buthaina] glad to hear that, dave

[ewan.mcintosh] all in French

[dave] or english

[ewan.mcintosh] That's what's inspired me to only go for Target Language

[dave] i'm from new brunswick

[buthaina] me too, all in English..

[Art_Gelwicks] spelings irelevant.

[dave] Gart is not funny

[dave] :D

[Art_Gelwicks] As long as you use a G instead of an F I'll let it slide.

[buthaina] I'm a strong believer in that approche because this how I learned French in my senior high-school years (the last 2 yrs). And

[buthaina] And thanks to my French teacher who insisted we talked in Fench even when i met her in public once with my mother she

[buthaina] talked to me in French

[Art_Gelwicks] I'm not a linguist, but as with all things speaking improves with practice.

[dave] on pourrait parler en francais ici si vous voulez!

[buthaina] I am so grateful to her because the little French I speak now it's becuase of her

[ewan.mcintosh] allez!

[Art_Gelwicks] God bless you.

[Art_Gelwicks] One year of high school German here...I can order a beer quite well.

[buthaina] I think pronunciation is important not the accent, Ewan..

[Art_Gelwicks] That's why podcasting makes it easier...many of the technical issues (spelling for example) are not a concern.

[buthaina] Who care about accent

[Art_Gelwicks] What accent, y'all?

[erin] podcasting = fewer technical difficulties? oh, please.

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[buthaina] I know my accent is funny but I try make myslef understood and clear

[Art_Gelwicks] For the speaker...not the medium.

[erin] different technical difficutlies, yes. but not fewer.

[dave] hey doug

[dave] how goes it?

[dougs] hi dave

[buthaina] Hi Doug..good to see ya

[dave] you write overly kind things on your blog doug...

[dougs] dave congrats on the new gig, btw

[dave] many thanks

[dougs] not at all, you and Jeff are defining a medium

[erin] he's working very hard on breaking the bajillions of sound boardy-things in his office. :)

[dougs] hi B, good to see you as well

[barbara-on-air] We are goign to wind down soon so that ed tech talk can begin

[barbara-on-air] dave is tapping his toes and looking at his watch

[ewan.mcintosh] just a mo, Dave

[Jo_McLeay] I'll have to say goodbye now. It was fun to see you all. Bye

[erin] bye jo!

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[buthaina] absolutely, agree with ewan

[buthaina] Thanks everyone for coming, and please stay for the next show by Jeff and Dave.